In a recent interview, Asuman Basalirwa, the Jeema president, explained why he attended last week’s Interparty Organization Dialogue summit conspicuously skipped by the opposition Forum for Democratic Change, FDC.
Speaking to Baker Batte Lule, the Bugiri municipality MP, said unlike FDC that boycotted the meeting, there’s no issue under the sun that is too hard for Jeema to discuss especially with President Museveni.
See excerpts below.
Why did you attend the Interparty Organisation for Dialogue [Ipod] summit?
This is not about Basalirwa as an individual. I lead an organisation called Jeema, which was a founder member of Ipod. When it was formed in 2009, Hon Hussein Kyanjo was in parliament. We have a memorandum of understanding that creates organs and Jeema believes in those organs. Our participation in Ipod is premised on the respect and adherence to the memorandum of understanding.
Isn’t it the same memorandum of understanding that binds FDC, which didn’t see any reason for dialoguing with President Museveni…?
The memorandum of understanding has two organs; the summit where leaders of political parties sit, and the other organ where secretaries general sit. As far as I’m concerned, when you read it there is nowhere it states the summit should sit conditionally.
What I know is that Ipod is based on consensus. You sit, you agree, engage and then move forward. Discussions have been going on for the purpose of enabling the summit to sit and I know that all parties have been involved in those discussions.
I’m also aware that prior to this summit, there were meetings at party headquarters where our secretaries general and representatives of Ipod visited, even the NRM at Kyadondo and Salamu Musumba of FDC was there.
Therefore this has been a process. Ipod is also a forum where we join voluntarily; nobody is forced to be there. We are bound by certain values and when we have disagreements we sit and discuss and develop a consensus. I’m not aware of any conditions that were discussed prior to the Ipod summit.
Many Ugandans believe it is a waste of time to dialogue with Yoweri Museveni because such discussions in the past have yielded nothing. So why do you engage in a process you know leads to nowhere?
So what is the alternative? You know there are two issues; you either dialogue or you fight. That is what I want to be guided on.
But do you believe that somehow you can talk Museveni out of power?
That is not what Ipod is about. Ipod is about fairness; to continue pushing for a level playing ground, timely electoral laws, respect for personal rights and freedoms, respect for the rule of law and constitutionalism, and strengthening multiparty democracy, that’s what Ipod is all about.
But these are rights that are guaranteed by the constitution; if the state has no humility to respect them do you think a meeting of four people would somehow miraculously resolve them?
Then what do we do? We have been in this struggle for 32 years; what do we do differently to make Museveni leave? Do we go into defiance, do we go into fighting? What do we do? Jeema believes there is nothing below the sun that cannot be discussed. I know at the end of it all there is a lot of suspicion but for me I’m satisfied that what I have been saying from very far, I had the opportunity to say it to Museveni’s face. My conscience is very clear.
But he hears these things everyday…what if you say them to his face, so what?
That is what the memorandum of understanding says that you will sit and engage. People think that you are going to get answers to problems that have been around for 32 years in one day. It cannot be like that; these are processes.
Some people have argued that it is futile to negotiate with a man who has vowed to annihilate you …A man who looks at you as enemies rather than as political competitors…
That is the discussion we should be having and that is what I would prefer telling him to his face. My statements were very clear, commitments and assurances. For us in Jeema, if we discover that the objectives for which Ipod was formed are not fulfilled we will not demand for one organ to sit we will just quit. We will not hold anybody hostage. We shall just say enough is enough; we go away.
Some say last week’s meeting was a photo opportunity with Museveni …
That’s an insult to some of us who have been in this struggle for as long as Museveni has been president. But what is the alternative to dialogue? Give it to us and we will follow.
So for lack of an alternative that’s why you go in a process that you know is dead ab initio?
For us we think that is part of the process. Those who want to fight can go and pick up arms; those who want to defy can defy. For us it is not time for apportioning blame or victimization. We are saying that people should take different routes and this is one of them.
If I may ask what was the takeaway from that summit?
First of all the summit was able to meet for the first time in nine years. Secondly for me, I confirmed what I have been hearing that Museveni is not prepared to leave power. Maybe I would be a doubting Thomas that Museveni wants to stay in power for good but I was able to confirm this.
With that confirmation, is that going to determine how you relate with him going forward?
It tells me to think twice about the kind of actions I should take. If you have a person who is not determined to leave; what sort of actions do you engage in to ensure that you get the change you want?
That also is very important. Do we go the electoral way, do we dialogue or do we fight or engage in civil disobedience. The problem we are going to face is that each time we will have a summit meeting even if it is not with NRM, tomorrow Jeema will say it is not going to attend a meeting where FDC is chairing and it will be a big challenge.
What do you say to those who say that by attending such a meeting you are helping to legitimize and polish Museveni’s image, which has of late been soiled by acts of brutality against those who oppose him…
It is not Museveni who called for that meeting. Ipod has its own timetable. It was called by Ipod and facilitated by the Netherlands Institute of Multiparty Democracy. So it has nothing to do with polishing Museveni’s image because it wasn’t there on his agenda. We have agreed to meet again on May 12, 2019; it was a collective agreement.
Ipod has been around for nine years and throughout that period; they have been trying to have the summit but every time frustrated by Museveni. One would ask why now?
At the end of it all when shall we know that it is in his interest or not. If that is the case then let’s make a timetable that the summit will meet every after a month or a year so that we know that it is very clear.
Nobody has objected to the summit meeting but people are only saying that the conditions are not ripe. The moment you agree to be a member of Ipod it means that you agree to be bound by the provisions of the memorandum of understanding.
Do you think there should have been some preconditions before the summit meeting?
Yes, I agree but where do you discuss those conditions from? It can’t be in the media in my view. If anybody says that I attended the meeting in breach of the memorandum I signed, then I’m sorry.
But we also met Museveni in the open. What I told him in the closed door meeting is what I told him in the open; our conscience is very clear. We will not meet him at night or go there in hijabs as some people do. Our going to see him is in respect for the document on which we appended our signatures. If tomorrow we append our signatures to a document that says there will be no summit, we will not go there.
But I also understand that there are people fighting political battles through Ipod that’s why we in Jeema are speaking with a single voice but you will hear those who have problems with Jimmy Akena in UPC use that to hit him, those who have problems with Norbert Mao in DP will use that to hit him.
bakerbatte@observer.ug